Data-Driven Growth Done Better | Operation Automation Podcast

I'm a big fan of over sharing we're Talking very specific things today if You want to get promoted start doing the Role that you want to be promoted too The technician is the future we move From there to AI [Music] Operation automation is ready to launch Prepare to optimize your business in Three two one go Foreign [Music] Hi there and welcome to another episode Of our podcast And the final episode of the slow season Sprint Today we dive really deep into the Nitty Gritty of marketing and level up our Perspective to the sea level What's the main purpose of marketing how To make sure your team will drive Revenue Is it all just about the numbers today We're joined by Ola Chief marketing Officer at get response hola is guiding Global Marketing and growth she's data Driven a real ambassador of growth Hacking and knows how to craft Successful Revenue driving strategies For established Brands and startups in This episode Ola shares plenty of tips On how to take your marketing team from Almost zero to Absolute hero Foreign

[Music] Thank you for joining us today and we Will be talking about a very important Topic for every marketer which is data Driven marketing operations but before We jump into this super important topic We have a question we ask every guest And the question is which practices in Life do you wish you could automate Oh that's a current question I I wasn't Actually suspecting that you got a start Of something like big as this right Um so we we are talking about life as a General right like not like professional Uh there were some times actually I I'm Not thinking about it right now I think My mental this change there were some Times where once I was thinking that I Would like kind of like to automate like Eating right so that you basically like Won't feel hungry and you just actually Will like have all of the ingredients Actually like automatically delivered Right but I think like that this kind of Thinking right now once I'm a little bit Older like it's kind of bad because Obviously it was related with efficiency With the fact that you know once you get A full day with you know many calls many Like things to solve then you sometimes Just forget to eat so I used to also Fast a lot and there was like you know Like a time once I was starting my day And then like ending my day and having

Just basically two meals right so I Think this idea came from uh from a Little bit of Workaholics and I think It's not like a good idea that I'm Supporting right now uh however on the Other side I'm still like really big fan Of fasting and I've learned about a lot About fasting and Um definitely that's something that I Think is is healthy so yeah like eating Like might like was was the thing that I Would like to automate like few years Ago but maybe not not not anymore Uh but that's like that was actually the First the first thought that came to my Mind right uh because because usually Yeah like 90 of situations I'm just Treating eating as you know something That you just need to do to get all of The like nutrition elements right but I Also I use this 10 that I when I really Enjoy cooking and uh like uh celebrating Dinners with my husband my family so That's not something that I would fully Automate I think in some scenarios I Would like just automate like on a work Day scenarios where you are just eating The same repetitive things right okay so You you would leave those like special Occasions and then you would actually Enjoy cooking right yeah yeah I think I Would divide it into like this two use Cases let's say because uh and also this Very practical person that I'm basically

Like buying like the same things and I Could basically eat the same breakfast For like 15 years right so I I really Don't need like diversity for let's say Breakfast you know I'll get my favorite Place where we are going to eat Breakfast like three four times per week And basically since like for 10 years Like maybe not 10 years but for four Years as we're living here we usually Order the same thing so we're just Coming through inside and they see us And they're like okay we're gonna bring You uh like you know for my husband English breakfast and for myself like You know avocado with with an egg and Last breakfast yeah yeah yeah so that's That's that's I think the area that is Somehow to make it already so I don't Need to get like the menu card right oh That's great are you halfway there we Were also talking at some point about Smart fridges here at this section there Was a long discussion about how smart Fridge is a way to automate the way You're eating Yeah yeah that'll be also cool yeah I Think some Services I know for you use It a lot but some services such as Global you know like this earthquake Like deliveries or gorillas are helping A lot I'm like like super frequent user Of it uh having even like some Subscriptions there so that basically

You know I just having the same list and Then ordering like the same list like Over and over again getting delivered so Like that's it that's also partially a Solution yeah all right yeah so Definitely a part of automation already Nice yeah I'm slowly getting there Um yeah that's true cool so you know we Have quite a long list of questions it's So good that actually you know we can Talk to you because we could actually Look at marketing from like uh you know Like a certain perspective like look Look at it as like you know look at the Big picture so the question that I Wanted to ask you is actually what is The main purpose of marketing in your Opinion Yeah yeah like I I generally it's like to generate to Like generate like net incomes for that For the company right so uh specifically If you are talking about a company like That doesn't fully have like the sales Team so about the product Growth Company Right because if your company is like Enterprise driven like TB then obviously The sales team like it's partially Covering it with the marketing and IT Divides into two different stages and Then marketing is rolled slightly Differs but eventually I think like Every single marketer should think about The incremental like net income so I

Mean here the revenue and like everyone The best Roi possible right so is this Balance between uh like the revenue and How much money to spend to generate that Revenue cool do you think that is Possible let's say to you know like Build a marketing theme And actually have the marketing team Be responsible for for Revenue so Actually you know you don't create two Teams like the marketing team and the Sales team but you actually create the Marketing team with this kind of goal to Actually you know Bring Revenue yeah Actually on the business model right Because I'm I'm like uh I've been always Like heavy into like business models Like you know theoretical response sales Business model previously over a Marketplace business model and then Earlier actually that was uh that was More of the e-commerce let's say like They're still in the tag but we're Basically selling the iot so that I Would call it rather e-commerce right Now uh and in all these business models Like marketing was the revenue driver However there are like many like Business models where marketing is not Really actually the key like Revenue Driver specifically you know like in Some models where you've got the Distribution networks or purely sales

Like driven models where marketing is Much more of the lead generation and Like you know like supporting the Inbound channels while the outband sales Takes you know 90 of the revenue right So I think like that your structure Needs to be adjusted to the business Model of your company and there are and I believe that you can even just close Like you know number of there are like Several business models right I would Say about five different like you know Business models that exist generally in The world that you can like categorize Like you know all the businesses into Like five or six business models and Then like uh that the relation between Marketing and sales like changes a Little bit right so it's rather uh the Same so you're rather actually just You're just in the sales team and the Small marketing team or it's marketing Driven so you need to adjust it to to do Your business model basically but yeah In many in this business almost like That I mentioned it is possible like Actually to build like just a marketing Team that's fully responsible for uh for For Revenue cool thank you Thank you for providing such a wide Perspective I did not see this coming Yeah like you know like they know the Favorite announcer for many marketers is Like it depends right yes exactly that's

My favorite one so since you started Talking about the structures already uh We have a very nice question here and It's How can you create a marketing team that Will help you achieve your business goal Whatever it is Yeah so specifically if you're talking Kind of like Revenue it's super Measurable right so Um if you really want to create like a Team that is driving you know like Prof Or like you know specific incremental Uplift in something right so sign ups And revenue Etc you need to make sure That you are hiring like you know They're data driven people right so Because regardless of the team specialty Even if it's like content or if it's a Branding social everything can be Measured and you you need to like make Sure that people who are who you are Hiring are kind of thinking of you know How to measure effectiveness of my work And how to find this alignment and Connection between let's say uh like Let's say content or like single like Team or single Channel or single tactic To this Revenue right and this is Actually the the one of the biggest Challenge because sometimes it's you Know a little bit harder to find this Connection like what how how does let's Say branding action will have impact on

Revenue but eventually if you are like Enough data driven if we're using like The right tools and Frameworks you can Always like connect it so that will be My first point definitely like make sure That you're you're hiring like data Driven people And that's something that like that Obviously lets me personal people right Because because I'm also quite data Driven and I just enjoy working Relatively people so uh so that's the And it's it's easier specifically the Organizations where they could even if It's very rough growth driven so so that Would be it but then on the other hand If you specifically want to achieve like Specific graph and like you know if We're looking for some you know Revenue Numbers or URL want to run an Ops heavy Company so operation is a heavy company You also like you need to make sure that You are building a team uh out of very Handsome people right so uh people who Are like regardless of the level like Really able to like you know get their Hands dirty and you know configure some Dashboards or like you know do the stuff Rather than doing the stakeholder Management and creating slides and Presentations that majority of the People at corporations do so uh kiss Kiss you know stakeholder you know there Are also some places where you need like

This uh perfect salesman with Stakeholder management and presentation Creation skills at an excellent level But I think not not in the very uh you Know like agile and revenue-driven Organizations so where do you stand on Uh flat versus non-flat hierarchy in the Company because I personally have only Worked in flood structures thanks God Don't want to change it but maybe you Have different experiences Yeah yeah yeah definitely like I I Really I I enjoy like flat structures Like a lot and I'm like a huge huge Believer like you know giving people's Ownership because this is the only way Like to grow right like but uh and but I've been working also you know at Uber And but basically like actually like a Leftover once it became like Corporation Right so the the less impact I had like Then I decided okay like uh I like this Is definitely not uh it's not going the Right direction also for me uh so Definitely like a big fan of flat Structures and I think I couldn't find Myself in like a huge organization right Because I would just get bored with you Know stakeholder management and Presentations creation [Applause] Um so I think it kind of depends on your Personality and I think everyone just Needs to find themselves in the right

Place Um yeah so that's that I know so many People like specific in the Consulting Business that actually guys are really Used to this you know like hierarchy and Like fact that you know it's working a Certain way or the fact that they are Building some presentations and Strategies like overnights that are that Then actually and the strategies are Being put actually on the shelves right So nobody actually is like implementing Them but you know the the Consulting Companies are being paid a lot of money For this so I think I think to sum up it depends on Your personalities if you really want to Like you know for startups for for like Growing Tech organizations like the the Uh like a flat structure I think is much More beneficial but obviously like so You should be giving people ownership But obviously you need to create some Structures right you need to make people Accountable and all they've also learned Is that you also shouldn't be giving Like one person like you know too many Like too much scope like by Mickey That's it's super hard like for majority Of like us and I think it's just not Doable to be focused on everything right Like to be focused let's say on top of The funnel bottom of the funnel uh like Various things so you need to build it

That way that people have ownership that They have their own uh like decisions to Make that they feel freedom that they Can experiment with but even given a Scope right so they know that okay this Is something I don't need to bother with Right because that's also something that Is pretty much the motivating people if They think okay should I put my hands Here here or there right I know like you Know like which which which Actually are we had to to move forward And this is also like pretty bad for for Many people so ownership yes and like Flag structure yes but within a specific Uh like framework yeah I would say Within a specific framework and scope This is great Especially with like you know even if Your scope is limited you have so many Things to learn like you know there are Like new tools coming your way they're Like you know just changes in the Industry or across different Industries So definitely limiting the scope helps You in a lot of way just you know to Focus on something to be just like Better and better at it and not to go Crazy so this is this is really Important Yeah the whole balance is also like Important right here in that sense but Also like with prioritization right so Even like for myself right even if I'm

Like you know looking to the MRI and Looking to the revenue it's also that You know like I'm like I need to make Sure that I'm focusing my efforts and my Focus in a certain time frame into Specific let's say area right so it Means that I'm not I'm not like you know Like 100 like available for all of the Teams like even in the marketing team Right at the same time there are like Some you know in this quarter I'm much More working with the product marketing That core are much more working let's Say conduct Partnerships and then Different one like you know and focused Let's say on the churn in the product Let's say right or the constellation Flow so like regardless of the level Even if you're responsible the super Broad you also need to put yourself into The framework into that you know Prioritization because the other way you Just get crazy right and wouldn't Accomplish anything exactly so here I Just you know this question immediately Pops up like okay so how do you make Manage this amount of information Because like for a lot of people in Marketing you know you you have this Kind of like a privilege of focusing on The limited scope but you don't have This privilege I guess because you need To just you know think about the whole Structure and actually focus on data

Focus on the Um you know processes within multiple Teams so actually how do how do you Manage the amount of information Um yeah so I think it's about like well Let me think like yeah free thanks so The fact is all about like scalable Frameworks so that they think anything About the processes in that way that you Are you know once you see that there is A thing or like a problem that might Repeat itself let's actually build like A scalable framework just to solve it Like forever right so instead of just Fixing something like here and there you Are just thinking like three steps ahead Like okay like how to build a framework That will basically also solve all the Future problems right and what do we Need and we should like be owning it so That's that's like one of the things uh And then like you know copying that this This framework like let's let's think About like go to markets right like Let's say the example for this could be Uh the way we are choosing which Market To go next right or like how do we Launch specific markets actually like it Would be crazy just to you know like uh Like reinvent the wheel for every single Market what we are doing we are Basically like obviously we needed to Experiment a lot at the very beginning But we just actually eventually found

This model like we know who do we need To hire like what will be the scope of This person what will be the things we Will launch first what kind of the tasks Need to be performed what what needs to Be done on the ite side there are some Local nuances but basically like this is Like copying like the same go to market Strategy more or less not just you know Example for a for the framework so then The next time like I don't need to be Bothered with okay like how to land this Market but we kind of like know how to Do this Uh the second thing would be uh Definitely uh like prioritization and The the first thing would be delegation And by uh prioritization I mean that you Need to kind of say loud that okay this Is like this is the thing that we need That you know we are struggling with This is the thing that we should be Prioritizing with let's say we are Struggling with acquisition and not with And the activation is doing fine right Like so do not like spend any time on Activation like have just some hours Configured but just you know like like Let It Go for like a moment let's focus Let's say on acquisition right so make Sure that you are just saying okay like I'm saying everyone also that this is Not the idea that we are being focused On so just you know don't don't waste

Your time don't even check the numbers For first time being uh surprising the Funnel here and the first Patriot Delegation so that's uh that's also Really important just to learn like you Know that you are not the person who Should solve for all the problems and I'm usually once I'm working you know With the head of my teams I'm usually Also like super willing just to listen To their Solutions because usually once A person like you know comes to me with Specific problems or like questions it's Like they have in their mind already the Answer right they have some ideas and They just like there's ideas needs to be Somehow like formed right so like it's Not always like my role just to you know Give them the answer or like give them Like the solution but just you know help Them to find and like you know shape Shape the solution and then just make Sure that they they will be empowered Enough to to execute it So that that's that's something that I'm Constantly trying to do and learning Like every single day like of how I Could get better at specific delegation Or you know you know making things more Scalable Awesome thank you yeah that definitely Helps I mean it makes sense that this is A you know it helps navigate through so Much things going on yeah yeah yeah yeah

You just need to also like you need to Like learn how to be assertive right Like that's something I'm still learning I'm not like the past 30 person I know Like many people like even inside our Teams that are like much more I would like to say just know and like We'd be assertive with that I've learned A lot over the years and this is like The key skill that you need to have Because otherwise like you just get Crazy right so the same note of things Just saying no try like ideas and like Uh supports also like being this uh Problem Solver and like you know like Solution oriented person rather than Just you know problem spotter so that That's also this is something that tells But uh like the saying no to things is The crucial crucial thing and that's Something like I'm I think you just I Should aiming to just reach the uh you Know like the perfect perfect uh state Of it but yeah that's a never-ending Process For sure and you've been talking a lot About Um scaling processes also assigning Different product owners project owners For different programs as a good way of Basically building a team but when it Comes to companies that already have Multiple teams in charge of different Processes would you have maybe some tips

On how to align them the best way Possible Yeah yeah absolutely alignment is like One of the biggest like challenge Basically the the big organization gets Like then the alignment Communications Like becomes trickier and trickier and Also like you know keeping the team Motivation like high because uh you know At startups of 40 people like usually See all knows everywhere and like CEO is Super present and then basically Everyone knows everyone and it's much Smaller so it's like the motivation Energy is much higher right so once the Organization gets bigger alignment the Motivation and keeping like people Connected and keeping peekable like like Knowing stuff it's much much harder That that's why you know you all also Like should be making sure that you know Once you're hiring people that you're Hiring people who have like high you Know communication skills right even if You are like good communication skills Even if you're like you know hiring Developers right making sure that they Can create documentation the right way And that you know they can communicate Well like checking the soft skills is is Super super crucial uh when it comes to The alignment yeah that's that's Actually tricky part between like Keeping a balance of uh you know how to

Have a specific like and not like a Limited number of meetings because you Know usually we use meetings and some Catch UPS to get you know everyone Aligned uh and to keep that balance Between like keeping everyone aligned But also like making sure that they are Not feeling that they're wasting time on Listening you know like uh I was sitting On some meetings and doing something Much more productive so it's actually a Hard one and I think the key thing and It's like just going work that you need To do is just to make sure that uh Everyone like in your team knows that It's important for them to know to to Know like you know like what's going on Right so just that it has impact on Their work and that it's also important Like to share information outside and I'm a big fan of over sharing so it Means that and but I'm also a big fan of Over sharing in an asynchronous way so That people actually eventually I think That all the meetings would be useless If we would be like you know creating Like really good documentation and like Sharing it actually across all the Channels and then also reading it Because that's that's uh and like you Know like making sure that we're sure it Kind of everywhere because the problem With the Asic is communication is that It's it's great it reduces number of

Meetings but the problem is and that's Something I face that people basically Are not like reading the presentations If they're a shirt asynchronously there Is like no meeting like you know all Right right so if there's gonna be like A documentation there unless you will be Really actually related to that project You usually actually won't go through This you know video recording or for This presentation right that's that just You know a sad like kind of true but That's something that uh I think you Should uh for one and like actually Teach people how to really produce Documentation and how to really produce You know like slides overviews that are Very Visual and easy to consume and it's A hard thing right like I think uh it's A hard skill to really like create even One slide that is very informative and That gives you uh like the right amount Of information that is easy to consume Right there's something that you really Need to learn and you should like teach Your you know team members and train Your team members how to do it but then On the other side you also like should Know like that hey it's work for me just To go through this recording or for this Presentation and but obviously you will Be encouraged to do so if you know that It's like easy to be concerned so it's Kind of like a vicious circle I think

Because they're like you don't know Whether you should begin with that or or This or that Uh eventually like I would be a big fan Let's say of not having this like you Know monthly catch-ups let's say but Rather actually you know like doing it In an Asic way and like spend this time Maybe like um you know drinking beers Together or something uh but that just You know requires some some work to to To be uh to be done uh also like a Choose off of good tools right like uh I Think there are some tools that is Notion that are like a little bit better Than you know like maybe not a little a Lot better than Confluence uh like you Know like Google Slides better than than Uh then Microsoft like slides so also Like it choose of the tools that are Supporting this easy to consume Um communication is is important too Yeah and I think also one of the Solutions could be Creating a good space where all of these Materials could be hosted so that Everyone on the team knows where they Can look for them so for me in our Personal case that would be brand folder Okay I try to look there whenever I'm Looking for something and Basically just knowing that there is one Information Hub where you are likely to Find everything already kind of improves

Your chances of not trying to contact People and schedule meetings with them I Understand I'm one of the first people Who would schedule the meeting still but I would know how to get prepared for That meeting Yeah yeah yeah that's true but I think The key thing here is like in terms of Communication and really actually Getting prepared like also for the Meetings right making sure that you know What like what is a goal and how to Present the information and how to do it In a very visual way because usually we We are creating not slides even or like But we are creating the slides slide Documents like you know like documents That you know actually nobody's able to Consume and yeah this is just somebody Skill that we just need to learn how to Present the information better and how To become a better presenter how to Communicate better This is definitely a challenge because Once yeah the meeting actually allows You to limit the information on the Slide and just use it as a sort of like Uh help to navigate through whatever you Want to say but obviously for the person Who is reading The the it needs to be like a different Piece of presentation right so they're And that's that's actually the key thing Right you should be creating

Presentations that way that a person Doesn't need to What you're saying to get the point Right so the point of the goal should be Very visible and uh and you know just Present it like with a graph making sure That every single slide has like one Goal so uh like I would really actually And that's something we've been doing as A team uh and like actually recently is This like public speaking representation And also like you know presentation as Skills training I think that's something That every single like team member every Single person should go through a few Times you know during the lifetime just To really get trained in like you know Presentation skills uh how to create Good presentations like how to not just You know communicate well but also how To organize a slide right so there are Some basic projects that and tips that Are changing completely the fact whoever People are listening to you or not okay So can I add this like you know Communication skills and actually Presentation skills to the two skills That you've mentioned like being data Driven and being Hands-On Okay so we're definitely like data Driven Hands-On like and the Communication skills uh uh or are Definitely like crucial yeah definitely Cool thank you

Okay Um thank you so much I totally agree With everything just so much information I need to process it it takes time also Friday afternoon so it's catching up With me Um What about we speak about another very Important topic and that is the biggest Challenges in marketing and what we're Currently facing because we're in the Middle of the year What do you think is the forecast for The second half Yeah I'm kind of super happy that we as Good responses are a bootstrap company So I really wouldn't like actually to be Right now at the company that is busy Baked uh in the current economic climate And facing the fact that we are just Starting actually facing the recession And that we've seen that basically you Know many tech companies valuation just You know like declined over like 30 to 50 percent and it's definitely we we are Like somehow like just you know starting To face it and definitely like uh the Company's valuation is gonna even be uh Worse and we're gonna see like much more Layouts within like the VC founded great Companies and uh many you know companies That had like ridiculous actually Evaluations one year ago I think it's Gonna it's gonna be a tough but I know

The other side like during the crisis is Like this most of the like key and Greatest companies are being born right So we've got the top like you know Bubble like 20 years ago we went and the Housing actually a mortgage bubble like 12 years ago like yeah 14 years ago and Usually during this time in during the First bubble PayPal actually arrived During the second bubble like you know Companies such as Uber actually uh like Appeared to uh I think that uh during This bubble also like a bubble burst Also some new great companies will Appear and obviously it's also like Opportunity for companies like you know As as us like that because usually it's The time once the market consolidates a Lot so you know like other like bigger Companies are uh buying like the smaller Like companies and uh and basically uh That's that's that's one of the effects But then the other one is that the Companies with better financial Situation like survive and companies That were you know like too much Actually focused on this aggressive Growth spending too much than earning Then they usually don't survive it right So basically the market gets cleaner I Would say that's something I would also Expect Um So that's that's actually one one eye

Aspect of this like facing this economic Crisis and you know inflation rates uh That's gonna be really interesting Actually to watch but obviously many Companies are facing you know the churn Rate and that's also we are also facing With Friday you know the rising churn Rate actually Rising costs of user Acquisition because some companies you Know such as Google or Facebook I Wouldn't be surprised if you will see we See already that basically the cpcs have Increased right and Google and Facebook Cannot say that yeah we increase prices But I think that's something that they Will be doing because you know even Facebook like church you know Mark Zuckerberg showed like one week ago that Yeah like 30 of the company potentially Like company employees shouldn't be There right so I do expect that we're Gonna see some old surprise increases For the major ads networks and obviously That's gonna have a huge impact on most Of the businesses that are basically Acquiring customers through paid paid to Pay that so that's something I'm also Gonna like expect you to see But then obviously you know after this Is the natural cycle right after a Recession like there is also this Economic growth so and many Opportunities and many opportunities uh Arrive so that's really interesting

Actually to to watch and it's like will It get also like to build like at this Moment like you know I get response that Has a very stable like financial Situation and you know get its budgets Just to spend and to experiment with you Know get like a cash so it means that uh You know we are not just you know safe But it means that it still like gives You some opportunities like to grow and To experiment with right so you don't Need to like you know crazily cut Budgets right but basically you you can Still like hire you can like grow and This would be kind of like opportunity In the longer term also for companies Bootstrap companies with us and what About the role of marketing and all of This like do you think it's in the Middle and in order for the company to Survive migrating operations are really Going to become much more important Yeah yeah I think like specifically Looking like deeper into the funnel Right so uh if you if you know that Because usually most of the companies Are and it's the basic mistake they are Like usually being focused on the Acquisition right on the first like part Mostly uh and then they're neglecting The the the you know the activation uh The referral Revenue like you know the The latest stages of the funnel uh the Retention part uh and this is something

That I think marketing also should kind Of refocus right because because we know For example that they're uh secure for Uh remarketing ads is like 10 times Higher than the CTR for prospecting ads Basically meaning that it's 10 times Easier like to acquire a customer like You know who has uh you know been on Your website some time ago and just to Remarket them rather than to you know Like try to Target the conclusive new Customer so my advice recommendation we Also like to look into the whole funnel And specific in the marketing role just To like look into like more into Remarketing in the bottom of the funnel And see where we can improve the ROI Where we can improve the conversions Right like maybe we can like improve the Conversions in the arpa as well so Um I think like uh here being even more Data driven and look into the funnels And uh the whole funnel and looking into Like LTV is something that will be even Much more significant right now because In the events of you know in the times Of prosperity you are just losing you Know you're growing like you know you're Using you're looking into the users Acquisition and that's that's the key Part right and then you are not so Worried whether they're coming back or Not because you know that you will have Like many more customers coming soon

Acquired at decent like low cost but if That changes it's not so easy actually To acquire new customers it's a little Bit more like expensive maybe or people Are less you know willing to buy for Your product or to buy for yourself to Pay for your services then you need to Look into much more into a marketing and Bottom of the funnel Thank you thank you so much that's a Very deep answer as well like we're Talking very specific things today Cool so so here Um yeah you've actually mentioned you Know how to prepare for for the nearest Future what to look at and actually what To focus on Um so what would be like the red flags You know if you if you think like about Like you know people who are in charge Of marketing departments right so what Should they look for so what are the Like key areas for for improvement you Know what could you spot as a red flag In order to change it as quickly as Possible so that you can obviously you Know Um Just just basically change things for The better Is that once you look into their Google Analytics and you look into like you Know the default marketing child split You see that basically paid search and

Like PPC is responsible for let's say 60 Of their uh of their like results right Of the Whatever Whenever these are like Revenue sign ups youth traffic Etc and Then you get direct right direct is also Like an outcome from bpc and other Channels uh so this is actually the Major like red flag and like kind of Rich Point once you see that you are Paying for most of your traffic because It means that once you're gonna stop Paying then you won't get the traffic And this is like definitely not very Scalable Um so you know like making sure that you Get a healthy Channel mix including like You know obviously paid is important Right but I think like the golden Depending actually on the channel in E-commerce is a little bit more but the Friendly page shouldn't be more than you Know 50 of your channel mix I would say Like best actually if that's not not More than you know it's 30 35 percent of Your channel mix and it's definitely bad If you know you do have organic at all Because organic like eventually should Be obviously it's organically something To build you're building on uh in a very Long term but it's the most effective Way actually to you know acquire users And to acquire new traffic to to get new Revenue and it's a very long lasting Obviously it's hard to build and it

Takes time but you should be looking Into growing the the share of the Organic into in your channel mix so that Would be like number one uh number one Spot and I think it's also very often Neglected by many many companies because The ones that get numbers it's like okay Right that's what happens if we stop Paying right and that's that's the issue [Applause] Um and then actually another thing Obviously would be like not looking at This related before I mean telling Earlier like if you know the marketing Is just looking into like acquisition And nothing to like you know the the Next stages uh of the funnel that's also Super bad and uh specifically for many E-commerce businesses right so uh if uh If you're all like you know starting Spending money on acquisition but your Funnel is not optimized meaning that you Are not you know recovering abandoned Cars you are not having any remarketing Basically the whole like website Experience sucks it means that hey like You shouldn't be spending any dollar Um a user acquisition because you are Just losing money and just to share an Example right like you know about 70 of Users I think about 60 yeah 66 70 of Users generally like you know they Abundant cards uh in the e-commerce Shops in the United States and in Europe

Uh this is the data from last year and It shows that you know like basically if You're were able to recover like some of Them then you wouldn't need to accept For new users right so this shows like The scale of the problem and you really Should know your numbers and you should Really be caring about the funnel and The customer Journey first and then like Looking into acquisition not the other Way around Awesome thank you So Here you know we've talked briefly about Like you know the processes that are Already already running in the company And I was also curious about your Perspective let's say that you know like A part of our listeners right now uh Would be perhaps like you know people Who Are launching their e-commerce Businesses and actually they're about to Start they're like like you know Introduce their marketing teams build Marketing teams what would be your tips For building a marketing tape team you Know from from the ground up so Especially now with all the things that You've mentioned and all the challenges I had So based on your experience what would Be your you know tips for for people who Are about to run and start a a marketing

Team in e-commerce Okay now yeah so the first thing was That I was like asking I would ask Differently about like the business Model right because the B2B like the First lot from like you know e-commerce Uh but there's one Golden Rule there and The golden rule is all about like if You're just starting out to build your First marketing team you know the first Marketing hire the first people actually You need to hire should be the shape Marketers so they should be there should Be people basically who have like Overall like they're not like a really Big like Specialists into like one Particular Channel but you know the First person you should hire should be Much more of the ship marketer who knows Like it has a good solid foundations Being very uh of you know like organic Paid uh you know referrals athletes like Uh and also being birth data driven so Because you you actually you shouldn't Be hiring like specialists at the very Beginning right because like usually Specialists are like really good with a Little bit bigger teams where there are Specific Scopes where there are specific Areas they they actually are really able To grow their areas within the company But at the very beginning a person who Is like kind of uh you know the Citizenship Market that are overseeing

Multiple channels and being able to jump From one thing from one hour we have to Another because you would need this Person you know to kick off some uh you Know like Google shopping campaigns at The very beginning then actually jump to Email marketing uh then jump to some you Know ux website optimization and like Working maybe with developers and then Also like you know make sure that you They're gonna like optimize back like The budgets and Etc right so it needs to Be a very flexible person in the very Beginning And then once the organization Grows Right once you are uh once you are Growing your team then basically you Should be moving from you know the Station marketers uh into much more Specialized people right so you should Be having a person who is just who is Not just actually a specialist let's say In the Performance Marketing but it's Also happy with the fact that they will Like stay with the Performance Marketing Because so there's a big challenge if You are hiring like you know too many uh To practice people let's say 20 to too Many to shape marketers let's say and Then your organization grows because Everyone you know that would like to do Something like like a little bit of Everything right so you need to switch At certain points into a place where

You're a hiring Specialists who are like Really great at what they do and they Would like to become more and more Senior even they are yes but basically Like they they don't feel the need to Take over you know from PPC to SEO to to Like you know actually marketing and Take over like five different channels Because you don't need actually you know Five heads of the marketing like in your Organization so so that's something Really to to think of and to know like How much your your company is how Material team is and that the fact and Just you should be conscious of it that At the very beginning like with the First like three people five people in The marketing team you're gonna need Completely different setup than one zero Marketing team is gonna be scaled up to 50 people right so these are like just Two different Teamworks and it's also Something natural and you shouldn't be As a business owner with the fact that With a five people organization you know Once you're gonna scale up to like five People organization once you're gonna Scale up your teamwork that's basically Like the the people you know like that You want to be able to like keep up the Players right because you need some some Team members for the you know for the Start and you need completely different Skill sets for you know scaling your

Organization and then for running a Mature organization and that's like Completely fine so you should be just Knowledgeable of that that it's okay Then that you're gonna kind of replace Some people because you just need to Call completely different setup cool Thank you for clarifying that because I Believe that you know it's it's it's uh Definitely worth to just know that this Is the way it is this is life Yeah yeah yeah that's true that's true But therefore e-commerce specifically The very beginning obviously this no T-shirt but you know like then so with Good overview both on the performance And you know SEO and content uh cricket And then marketing automation as well And then you know like also like once You were behind the next the next person Like you know maybe you know hire a Person who is above experiencing SEO and Content to match like your two areas and Like you know performance and let's say Uh you know they tunnel uh also could be Matched uh and then you know marketing Automation with email marketing with a Website optimization could be also Matched right so you are at the very Beginning looking for people with Broader experience and then just you Know making more and more specialized Yeah I really liked what you said about Kind of building from the ground up so

The person that's been with you from the Very beginning has the potential to Become a CMO or like the marketing lead Whatever but would you say timeline is a Factor here so the amount of time a Person spends on a given project Directly affects their promotion or Would it be something secondary because I just know companies where people would Not get a promotion unless they've been With the company for more than a year What's your standard no I'm actually a Big believer like of uh you know like Promoting people World when they Actually show specific skills and like When they show that they are kind of Ready but not just actually ready with Okay yeah I'm ready with it but actually Showing that they're you know like Usually if you want to get promoted Start doing the role that you want to be Promoted to right so it's not that and This is actually the most successful Like promotions right once you see that This person basically like he did he Wasn't on that role but he was actually Doing it like that person like for the Last few months and he was doing it Proactively right so it's supernatural Then to promote them to this role Because here's basically like taking all This ownership even if that was like Beyond his responsibilities and that That would be like by my takeaway right

So I'm not a big fan of promoting Somebody uh just for the sake of like Yeah you've been here yeah I think I've Never like promote anyone like this for A second okay you've been here for for Many for many years and that's why you You're promoted right like that's that's All not not the case But the fact that you are already like Kind of you know like you're doing that And that's that's actually a kind of Natural step for you and it doesn't Matter whether you but you are here like For three months or one month or like One year Etc like if you if you actually Are showcasing that you just came to the Company as a specialist role but you are Basically having such a strong skills And like you know like such a strong uh Like ownership and that you are Basically doing and performing at the Managerial level then you should Actually become a manager after two Months right so it's all about like you Know how yeah it's I think all about Like the employee and uh and how far They're gonna like uh just showcase Their their skills and feel comfortable In the neural great thank you for saying That that makes the future look bright And full of opportunities For Elephants like that people like know That or tell that they're capable of Doing something but you know you need to

Kind of like present it like in the real Time and like you know if you're gonna Have like the specific like Use cases showing that hey I'm doing This already this is not like something That I will start doing and this is not Just my plan but actually something I've Been doing over the last five projects And you don't have any any arguments you Know to charge you with right It's Supernatural so Uh so so that's that's that's yeah that Sounds super positive but actually like It's not so obvious in many many cases Great gotcha okay before we move on to The most important question of our Podcast for the season of the podcast at Least uh we got one more which might be Even more important to be fair and it is Can you share any proven marketing Processes that drive Revenue in your Personal experience Yeah so uh again actually it kind of Like depends on the business model so I Can show like few a few here uh one Actually the one that actually comes to Um to my mind is more like over there Like the whole business model not just Actually with the marketing and that's Something that Um that's something that is quite new to E-commerce's but it was like for many Years actually many B2B and software Businesses and basically that's

Introducing subscription to your Business and there is actually a Specific reason why SAS companies are so Successful why many like busy fans want To invest into SAS companies and the Reason for that is that the cash flow For SAS company is very predictable Because you get the subscription and You've got the people actually paying For the subscription and that's why all Of the also like the older tech Companies including Adobe they switched From like you know one payment for their Adobe Photoshop into like monthly or Yearly subscription because then you can Basically maximize the lpv and you can Actually make your Revenue much more More predictable so that you will just Optimize the churn and you know like What kind of a revenue you'll get you Know next month and within one year and That's something that you know investors Just love right right so they really Love predictable like business models so That's a super new thing to many E-commerces and I'm a super big fan of a Subscription in the e-commerce basically Meaning that I can just subscribe to uh Just getting let's say this wine pack Every single like month right or getting My contact lenses every single month or Just getting like you know toilet paper Like toilet paper every single week That's something that I'm not having yet

But because I don't know if any Companies delivering uh you know toilet Paper that's a great thing so they'll be Perfectly subscribable I'm subscribed to One of a company that actually offers That they also like offer this uh Bamboo made toilet paper so it's also Like a like this is interesting that you Know how much Innovation you can Actually put into such a product so Actually this is really cool uh we could Then use it as a Inspiration a new supplement for uh As well They operate only in the US but Um I will definitely share a link with You because this is I was so surprised Actually that you know it's like when You look at that you can see that well This product like we we all know it and It's been here forever and nobody is Willing to change you know the approach Towards that but boom it it just it just Happens that there is a company that is Like bringing serious Innovation into This field so this is like that's good It's a very important field yeah yeah Yeah it's like you're so coming to Everyone right everyone is toilet paper That's true like you know like double Shave club like many years ago was the First one to introduce like a Subscription to e-commerce business Model with uh you know with the razors

So I think there's a perfect example I Know like yeah in the US there are many More companies in Europe I think it's in Europe it's a little bit Harder because you know you get many uh It's harder to scale basically E-commerce company right because you Know we've got big Market in the US uh Like where you can deliver basically you Know across all the states while it's a Little bit harder to deliver even across Some European Union countries it's it Just requires a little bit more Formalities and the costs are also a Little bit bigger so I think in Europe It's a little bit harder to scale it but I'm super excited to see like some uh Coffee actually subscriptions that are Coming like wine subscriptions uh Awesome cosmetic products subscriptions That are uh coming there so really Really excited with that and definitely That's that's something that uh Businesses should be looking looking Into Um yeah there also obviously many more Like tactics also like you know like Bottom of the funnel uh such as you know Making sure that uh your first you know Educating nurturing your customers and Then selling you know using here Obviously using your marketing Automation but specifically using like Personalized uh communication and

Segmentation and it sounds like super Cliche but still like many companies are Just sending like fix them all messages So uh and fits them all like you know Like communication uh but so that's That's definitely something that Marketing should look into and you know Like there are many talks about like you Know Ai and like all the things Marketing but I think the problem is That you know we shouldn't be talking About Ai and using this real like Predictive segmentation and predictive Personalization if we are not using the Rule-based uh rule-based uh optimization Rule-based personalization so uh I think That's that's talking about AI in let's Say predictive personalization is just You know like one step ahead of us and First we need to move forward uh with uh Just attribute based and even based Personalization so but that's something That the family can bring a lot of a lot Of like incrementality in the revenue And in terms of you know incrementality When it comes to conversion rates And that says you have just Justified This episode for operation automation Podcast thank you so much for doing that I think that's a great summary for it All basically a donation is the future We move from there to AI that makes Perfect sense to me Yeah yeah yeah that's true

And so one last thing for today and as You know this Sprint we're talking about Slow season because the episode is going To be released during the slow season So do you have any good and proven tips For slow season marketing because we Know life life doesn't stop in summer But it does get a little bit harder for Us marketers Yeah my first report was make sure that Your team members are taking some days Off You know like like draw something people Who actually are not really using all of The day itself and taking your days off Taking like you know two weeks off or Even three weeks off is really crucial To do and like the tell-ups of Motivation that helps actually with the Productivity so you know you need to Really care about it and you know the Summer season is it is perfect for it And you should as a manager should be Just you know use it just to push your Team members you know to to like spend Some time with their family and just go On vacation right so that's that's the That's definitely one something that Should be taken care of But obviously like your business needs To go on and uh I think I would come Back here also like to uh you know During this slow season like you you Should be potentially much more looking

Into you know like some you know Conversion optimizations that would work For you in the longer term right so We'll look into the bottom of the funnel Uh let's build like you know some Experiments here because it's also Perfect time for running some Experimentation Because during slow season you are Usually don't having any you know like Crazy discounts promo you don't have any Like you know Christmas promo you don't Have any like seasonal boosters that are That could basically uh impact the Results of the experiments so I would Definitely be focused on running some You know experiments on your website Where you get some stable traffic uh Running some uh experiments with you Know their content with various Channels With various PPC campaigns and to treat That as an opportunity because nothing Unexpected should happen so you won't Have any like crazy you know like spring Prom or like Christmas time uh and this Is like the perfect time just to get Very consistent results out of some Experiments that uh you always want to Run I also dare to add from myself here that It's probably great time to experiment With automation because you're not Risking much not as much as you would During Black Friday for example

Yeah yeah yeah that's true that's true Yeah definitely look into this bottle of The funnel and look in the conversions Automatizations like that's something That you should do because you know like This I would say that this should be the Time once you are potentially like much More looking into uh into into like uh Yeah how to how to improve your Conversion how to win back customers how To you know like personalize something Better and whoever that would make sense Or not Foreign [Music] As usual don't forget to check out the Show notes for a quick summary of what All I was talking about and some Additional resources This was the final episode of the Sprint Dedicated to slow season marketing which Means that once we're back we'll be Talking about something entirely Different and yet still very automation Driven If you enjoy this format and have topic Ideas for the future Sprints let us know In the comments or at podcast By the way we now have a promo code for All of you who want to experience our Online marketing platform get response In knowledge Glory sign up via the link In the show notes type gr Dash podcast

And enjoy your very own 15 discount And we'll be back very soon to talk About best marketing automation Practices for e-commerce stay tuned Thank you Operation automation is backed up by get Response the marketing automation Platform that's been on the market for Over 20 years subscribe for more juicy Insights and remember automate don't Complicate Foreign

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